Troubled by this site

Troubled by this site

http://www.operationiraqichildren.org/cgi-bin/datacgi/database.cgi?file=Forum&report;=Subtopic&SubtopicID;=00000049&firstrecord;=15&finalrecord;=29
The time is currently 18 Aug 2004 12:31


Posted by Unregistered on 03 Apr 2004 at 04:02

Mitch,
Can we count on your "Bush" vote in November?


Posted by Unregistered on 03 Apr 2004 at 04:08

Dave, Thank you for your first hand information and explanation...your reply confirmed that any help for the Iraqi children and their schools will have a positive spin off.
Also, a very sincere thank you for defending freedom and serving your country so proudly. I salute you sir !


Posted by Unregistered on 03 Apr 2004 at 04:11

Damon, you military service is commendable and I respect you for having served but it has no bearing on the purpose of this site, nor do your political views.

Mitch...you've posted all over this site with your negative attitude, but as of yet, I have seen you make no mention of what YOU are doing for the children in East LA...hmm, could that be because you do NOTHING? As we older folks would say, "put your money where your mouth is" and go to East LA and help them out. In the meantime, I will help the children of Iraq. My preference is that they not know sullen, crybaby Americans like you even exist!


Posted by Unregistered on 03 Apr 2004 at 04:31

DAVE do not concern yourself with the comments of the "minority"....they come out of their holes everytime there is a possibility someone might ask them to fight.

To you and Julian, I thank you for making it possible that the "minority" continues to have the freedom of speech that they have paid no price for, as you and those like you have already PAID IT, FOR THEM.


Posted by Unregistered on 03 Apr 2004 at 05:37

To Julian,

I'm 30, I was a Senior in High School back during the first Gulf War, (Class of '91) and so I missed the opportunity to participate in that war. However, one of my classmates joined the Navy after graduation, and participated in some of the post-war duties in the Gulf for a while.

But I remember watching and being glued to the TV (CNN at the time *gasp*) about Desert Storm, and hoping that Stormin' Norman would have taken a sharp left turn at al Nasiriyah and gone to Baghdad. I was extremely dissappointed when HW Bush called a halt to hostilities back then.

So I was the biggest hawk when it came time for W Bush to make a decision to go to war this time. Hell, I knew Iraq was coming shortly after 9/11. In fact, if I were President, I would have simulataneously struck Iraq and Afghanistan. Especially after all the perception that Mohammed Atta may have met with Iraqi Intelligence agents in Germany.

But here's what get's me folks. How many of you have seen the '99 action/comedy film, "Three Kings"? A movie about a small group of American GIs after the first Gulf War go find and steal back Kuwaiti Gold bullion from Saddam, but run into and get caught up in desparate Iraqi refugees, starring none other than George Clooney. However now, our old pal George Clooney is a anti-war activist. It's like he didn't learn a damn thing from that movie while making it.


Posted by Unregistered on 05 Apr 2004 at 14:49

I am amazed at the ignorance abound in response to my original comment, however I guess it is par for the course when it come's to extreme left or right politics. (referencing Maximus and 2thecontrary). I simple wanted to state my personal feelings regarding the fact that there are many children in this country who go to sleep hungry many nights. They are not rich by any comparison.
The personal attacks show your true ingnorance. What have I done? Well for starters, I served in the USMC overseas in Desert Storm, so I did see first hand how those people lived, and believe me, their resources far exceed ours. Secondly, I put myself through school eventually becoming a teacher in an inner city school, again witnessing the shortfalls of the american educational system. On may occasions I have spent my own time and money after school providing for my students what the system would not. Currently I work as a police officer, that again allows me the "privledge of seeing first hand the reprehensible conditions that many children grow up with here in America.
Do not assume my political affiliation when you know nothing about me. On the contrary to you assumption of me being a "left-winger", I have never voted Democrat in my life. My vote went for Bush in 2000 (regretfully). I don't vote by party lines. I consider myself an independent thinker who votes for the people he most agrees. I don't know why you find a need to personally attack someone for stating their personal views, that seems to be very communistic, wouldn't you agree?
If I could I would just like to state how I feel. I believe this site is just a way to make people who support Bush on this war a means to help them justify and feel better about being involved in a war and country where we have no business being. You need to clean up your own home before cleaning up the neighborhood.


Posted by Unregistered on 05 Apr 2004 at 17:40

Well Marine, here is the answer I am giving to most people with your attitude. If you think they have more resources, then I am truly sorry for your afflicted vision. Does that vision affect your job as a police officer? You bet.
There is no reason for anyone to go to sleep hungry in America, except out of choice. And if children do, it's out of the selfishness or incompetence of their parents to take them to social services or any homeless organization for food.
Regardless, every child in America can go to school, and our poorest of schools is what we are trying to get Iraqi standards 'up' to! Now here's my canned reply:

I served my country proudly for 25 years. I flew around the world several times, been to just about every major country there is, and spent a lot of time in several third world countries.
I have come across this "help American children first" attitude many times. I find the attitude selfish, and ignorant. Why? Please listen, because the following sentence is THE TRUTH.
Our poorest of poor children, homeless, or in shelters, are rich compared to children in third world countries.
Yes, you heard me right. Our poorest of poor children, homeless, or in shelters, are RICH compared to the children in third world countries.
If you have never visited a third world country, please do not be so arrogant as to assume that what people give to them from America is depriving children in the US. What deprives children in the US is their parents, their neighbors, their mayor, their Governor, their Representatives, and their Senators. The money is already there. If it not spent appropriately, it is the people of that community, and that state that are responsible, through inaction, not voting, not caring, or any other excuse you can come up with.
I will help the most needy children. Right now, I am focusing on helping the Iraqi children because I feel most responsible to them because of what America has done to their country, through self-serving politics.
I am making a model of myself so that American children can learn to be generous, world conscious, and learn a little of how miserably children live in third world countries. Hopefully, the ultimate enlightenment for our children would be to realize how fortunate they are in comparison, and realize how free they are in this country.

September Amyx, formerly Technical Sergeant, then Captain, United States Air Force, Gulf War Syndrome endurer


Posted by Unregistered on 05 Apr 2004 at 17:51

Do Both!!!

There are enough people in the United States to clean up American and Iraqi schools. If you see a problem--fix it. It doesn't matter whether the problem is in America, Iraq, or anywhere else. That's the problem with a lot of people. . . they point at the problems without offering solutions. Gary is a person who is offering a solution, and giving people an opportunity to either donate money or supplies to help this cause.

I'm doing both. My girls are in a public elementary school in Central Florida. I am actively involved in their education. . . helping out where I can. And I'm getting involved in helping the children of Iraq.

What's your solution to the problem here with American schools? If there's a way to fix the problem WITHOUT involvement from the local, state, and federal government. . .let me know.


Posted by Unregistered on 06 Apr 2004 at 01:17

Damon said:
"I am amazed at the ignorance abound in response to my original comment, however I guess it is par for the course when it come's to extreme left or right politics. (referencing Maximus and 2thecontrary). I simple wanted to state my personal feelings regarding the fact that there are many children in this country who go to sleep hungry many nights. They are not rich by any comparison.
The personal attacks show your true ingnorance. What have I done? Well for starters, I served in the USMC overseas in Desert Storm, so I did see first hand how those people lived, and believe me, their resources far exceed ours."

First of all, I'm amazed at YOUR ignorance that you think that the Iraqi resources exceed ours. Are you kidding? Are you smoking something?

During your service in Desert Storm, I'm assuming you didn't go far into Iraq itself. Well I know you did, because the furthest north into Iraq our forces went during the sweeping "Hail Mary" left hook was just south of Nasiriyah. So I don't know where you get the idea that they had the resources. Well, yeah I do. SADDAM had the resources, he just kept them all to himself building mutli-billion dollar pallaces.


Then you say,
"Secondly, I put myself through school eventually becoming a teacher in an inner city school, again witnessing the shortfalls of the american educational system."

Well maybe that's your problem. Being that you "put yourself through school" AFTER your Desert Storm service, maybe you weren't, oh I don't know, SMART ENOUGH to plainly see that Iraqi cities and villages did NOT have the resources that you claim they did.

Now this:
"On may occasions I have spent my own time and money after school providing for my students what the system would not. Currently I work as a police officer, that again allows me the "privledge of seeing first hand the reprehensible conditions that many children grow up with here in America."

Yes, but like September Amyx said, dilapidated conditions in American schools, etc are due to the failure of local governments, and quite ironically, most occur in strongly Democratic (with a capital D) areas. One example, Miami-Dade county. Yes, you remember that one. The one county that was the subject of the 2000 recount. Heavy Democratic county, and it probably has the worst schools in the country. Why is that? Because it has been shown through-out history, that almost EVERYTHING that government touches, fails. Why? Because we live in a world that has FINITE resources. When government attempts to run things, it assumes that there is an INFINITE supply of resources. Much as Saddam Hussein's socialist dictatorship did.

And now this:
"Do not assume my political affiliation when you know nothing about me. On the contrary to you assumption of me being a "left-winger", I have never voted Democrat in my life. My vote went for Bush in 2000 (regretfully). I don't vote by party lines. I consider myself an independent thinker who votes for the people he most agrees."

Believe it or not, I was a life-long Democrat until just recently. I turned voting age in 1991. My first election was 1992. I voted straight Democrat until up through the 2000 election. Voted for Al Gore even.

But something changed. A little something called 9/11 happened. When our country was attacked on a worse scale than Pearl Harbor. When the last thing I wanted to hear was negative and hateful things about America. And then wouldn't you know, the next attack came from not from al Qaida, but from the Democrats. "What did he know, and when did he know it?" Similar statements are being regurgitated now around the 9/11 Commission.

With the Democrats disgraceful politicization of 9/11 and then the 2002 election, I could no longer support the party that I once held with great respect. In fact, I became a Bush fan shortly after his 14 Sept. 2001 speech at Ground Zero, and it solidified by 7 Oct 2001 when Operation Enduring Freedom was launched.

But I don't know where you're getting this:
"I don't know why you find a need to personally attack someone for stating their personal views, that seems to be very communistic, wouldn't you agree?"

Communistic? There's nothing "fascist" (I think is the word you really wanted to use), about questioning a person's opions when they are so off-base from reality that one has to wonder if they are mentally stable.

"If I could I would just like to state how I feel. I believe this site is just a way to make people who support Bush on this war a means to help them justify and feel better about being involved in a war and country where we have no business being. You need to clean up your own home before cleaning up the neighborhood."

Well the fact that you THINK this site is for people who support Bush's option to go to war, just shows that despite your previous service in Desert Storm, as a teacher, and as a policeman, it seems that you are extremely selfish and arrogant. A bit OT, but I've always said that to be a cop that it takes someone who has a bit of an asshole in him.


Posted by Unregistered on 06 Apr 2004 at 01:31

Dave, I too am moved to thank you for your service and your view of the world that seems to go over some peoples heads.
You are exactly correct in that we are breaking the chains of ignorance. When controlling clerics tell these children that Americans are haters and evil, they will have personal contact that has told them that what they are being told is not true.

Al Queda and the militant Shi'ites know that if we are sucessful in converting the next generation, their hope for recruits is dead....and they are resisting to try to turn that reality.

Just today, the Iraqi's released a warrant for murder for one of their own. This is how far they've come in what will be an Islamic democracy.


Posted by Unregistered on 07 Apr 2004 at 13:20

Well, "Maximus", or whatever your name is, I don't know if your a gladiator or a transformer, but allow me to retort.

You obviously have a very good grip on politics and are well versed on the progression of our involvement in Iraq, or at least the involvement that has been reported by mainstream media.

First of all, don't tell me where I was during Operation Desert Storm. How you can presume to know the location of all our troops half way around the globe is ludicris. The fact is, you weren't there. You don't know. Or do you believe everything CNN reports to you? I hope not. I, on the other hand was there. I was "lucky" enough to witness the death of good friends. Friends who would lay their life down for others. Friends who made real sacrifices. I also witnessed the devestation that Iraq laid upon the country of Kuwait. I personally had the opportunity to speak to Kuwaiti men who reported stories of losing their son's to Iraqi prison camps, and daughters being brutally raped and beaten. Families being literally torn apart forever. So let me apologize here for any cinicism I may have in giving aid of any kind to the Iraqi people. I honestly believe the "freedom", which, mark my words, will never materialize, of all the the people of Iraq is not worth the death of even 1 american soldier.

I do agree that dilapidated conditions exist in Iraq. However I believe it is up to the Iraqi people to change that. I wasn't trying to compare our schools to Iraqi schools. I simply believe that there is much needed here in America, prior to extending resources to other countries.

Oh, and I would like to thank you for correcting me. Not being the political scholar you are, it was ignorant of me to refer to your facist methods of name calling as communistic. A bit of advice for you: Your arguments, although misguided, would be much stronger if you refrained from stooping to that level.


Posted by Unregistered on 07 Apr 2004 at 16:19

Earth to Damon. The people in this forum are smart enough to realize there are needs of school children in our own country. I am a school nurse and there are times when needs arise in my own community, but inevitably the community rallys around with donations of supplies or money when the need is made public. HOWEVER, if you are trying to compare the plight of our own school children with the children of Iraq who don't have windows, solid floors, toilets, or anything to write with, I think you need to get a grip. The bottom line is this isn't about choosing. Love and charity is limitless. If this forum bothers you so much Damon leave and let the rest of us do some good.


Posted by Unregistered on 09 Apr 2004 at 18:40

I just want to respond to Richard who thinks that the well educated "Boomers" worked hard and had nothing. While that may be true, they are also the parents of the "unappreciative spoiled brats" going to school today! Maybe we need to quit complaining about the way things are and DO SOMETHING to make our world a better place. I think this project is a great place to start.


Posted by Unregistered on 14 Apr 2004 at 12:25

Just a clarification in response to all the negative messages regarding my original post:

My original intention was to simply post my personal view on this topic. Contrary to most responses, I don't disagree with peoples beliefs regarding their views on charity as well as conditions in Iraq. In actuality, regardless of my personal opinion, I believe everyone has a right to do with their own resources what they choose, and actually applaud their intentions. Obviously, charity in any form is a good thing, I only wish people would rally around domestic issues with the same passion and dedication prior to addressing issues abroad. My belief is (and this is only an analogy, please don't take it literally) if American schools are a 9 on a scale of 1 to 10, and Iraqi schools are a 2, we should still work to make our schools a 10 before improving others, it's only in our own best interest.


Posted by Unregistered on 15 Apr 2004 at 01:59

Damon,

With all due respect, your statement, albeit non-literal, where you say, "My belief is (and this is only an analogy, please don't take it literally) if American schools are a 9 on a scale of 1 to 10, and Iraqi schools are a 2, we should still work to make our schools a 10 before improving others, it's only in our own best interest." shows a great deal about your life in general.

Let's see if I can break this down into simpler terms.

Taking that statement at face value, it seems that you believe that before people can give charity to outside or foreign issues, that the same issue back home has to be 100% perfect. First of all, since when is the human race perfect? There will never be perfection because someone, presumably a Liberal, will find something to complain about. Secondly, if we were to always wait until everything is perfect, we'd never feel that it would be to our benefit to help others.

Following this logic through, no American would ever feel driven to join one of those Sally Struthers "Help feed the African children" charities, because somewhere, an American child *might* be hungry as well.

What kind of world would we live in if no one ever gave to charity because their own world wan't perfect?

I'm sorry, but this kind of logic is extremely self-centered and arrogant. For example, (taking this issue to the ridiculous), "Not every town in the US has a McDonalds, so until we build one in every town, we can't build any in (say France)," Even when there's a bunch of poor Frogs (with a capital F) who are begging for a McDonalds.

Damon, one question, are you religious?


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